45‑70 vs deer

I don't know much about.450 Bushmaster. The .45-70 was developed for the army to be used in … For reference, a 450 Bushmaster has a case length of 1.7" and a 350 Legend is 1.71". The Big Game Hunting Blog is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com, Amazon.co.uk, Amazon.ca, Amazon.com.au, and other Amazon stores worldwide. was replaced with a different cartridge. At ranges inside 150 yards (where they’re both strongest), the .45-70 has a clear advantage of the .30-30. Since the 45-70 Government ammo is heavier and has a steeper trajectory vs the Win ammo, we find it harder to hit our targets more accurately because of its drawback, making it harder to place our shots. You can also get lower powered ammo for the .45-70 but that does accentuate the parabolic path of the bullet. Or solids, etc. Big big hole and lots of penetration. So, what ammo you should use depends on the rifle you intend to shoot it in. At the same time, there’s an even bigger difference between the newer .45-70 load and the .30-06 Springfield load. However, there’s a 405gr Remington load (links below) that’s advertised as safe to use in all .45-70 rifles in good condition. I poking to buy a 45-70 Winchester buy Ruger lever action. Or here: https://www.luckygunner.com/45-70-govt-405-grain-soft-point-remington-core-lokt-20-rounds?utm_source=bghb&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=45-70_corelokt#rid=bghb A few observations. I have a shorter custom Lee Factory Crimp Die and will likely seat the bullets to an overall cartridge length of 2.52". I used to have a .45-70 Springfield Trapdoor Model 73 carbine and intended to use it for deer, but I never got around to it before somebody else made a reasonable offer during a down period with me. While either will easily kill deer or pigs at 100 yds, the only advantage the .44 mag has over the 45/70 is a lighter weight gun. The .45-70 Govt shoots heavier and larger diameter bullets than the .30-30 Winchester. Heck, I would use it on black bear and at close range hunting on elk. With all that in mind, there is no plains game animal that I would hesitate to use the cartridge on at ranges out to 100-150 yards. What is maximum cup/psi for it. The '06 is a good everything gun. This ammo is loaded with bullets that have a pointed, flexible, polymer tip. The 45-70 is a diverse round that has many applications and can be reloaded with the same brass time and again. Due to these constraints, while the .45-70 Govt is popular among black powder silhouette shooters, few modern hunters use the cartridge at ranges past 200 yards. It fires a 350 grain .458 caliber bullet at 2,250 feet per second. Copyright © 2020 Big Game Hunting Adventures LLC | All Rights Reserved. kimbershot, Mar 12, 2011 #9. ridgerunner1965 Member. My thanks to everyone writing here. It’s all relative to what you are comfortable with. No need to chase your deer halfway across the county after you shoot it. There are few other rifles I’d rather have in my hands if I had to deal with a charging brown bear than an easy to handle lever action loaded with heavy hitting modern .45-70 ammo! I personally use 405 grain had loads and never had any issues dropping Russian boar, Bears, Elk under 100 yards. I'm sure this question gets asked a lot but here it comes again. It all began when in 1873 the U.S. Government adopted the .45-70 as an official military round for the Armed Forces. Joined: Feb 11, 2007 Messages: 3,788. If I was going to only hunt bear I would do 45-70. haven't been deer hunting with the 45-70 yet, but i imagine my combo will be more than lethal. This round has endured decade after decade, winning over new generations of sportsmen who migh tinitially be attracted to it as a historical curiosity, only to discover how versatile, and relevant, it remains for hunting big game and dangerous game today. The official military designation of the new cartridge was the .45-70-405. Today, only very low pressure revolver ammo is factory loaded, in deference to tort lawyers and the many antique .44-40 guns out there. More important for dangerous game, the traditional 405-grain .45-70 bullet can be handloaded or custom loaded as high as 1,950 fps in either .45-70 or .450 Marlin, yielding about 3,500 ft.-lbs. The .30-06 Springfield load is a 150 grain Nosler Partition (.387 BC) at 3,000 feet per second. I am thinking about using the Hornady 325 FTX. This allows the hunter to ethically take game at longer ranges and still consistently penetrate deep enough to reach the vitals of the animal for a quick and ethical kill. Again, it can, of course, reach a target at long range, but that’s not the point of hunting. So, while the .45-70 is about as American as apple pie, the .30-30 Winchester, the .30-06 Springfield, and the .45 Colt, only a relatively small percentage of dedicated hunters and shooters still use it these days. Inversely, too dense of a bullet would pencil through game without creating a wide, fast-killing wound. The second largest antelope. At that time, the .45-70 fired a .45-caliber, 405-grain projectile over 70 grains of black powder for a muzzle velocity of roughly 1,200 feet per second. I’m sure that will do a number on a grizzly bear, but you’re just asking for trouble with that load on a Cape Buffalo or elephant. Remington will not tell me psi of their 45-70G1 at 1600fps. For comparison to a popular deer hunting shotgun slug, the Remington High Velocity 3-inch rifled slug carries the following ballistics: Conversely, the .45-70 Gov’t has the following ballistics: When it comes to using a straight-wall cartridge, it is comparable in ballistics to a 12-gauge shotgun slug. With all that in mind, the .30-30 Winchester still remains a great choice for many hunters. I know, the .44-40 has probably killed more deer than anything except the .30-30. When fired from 7 pound rifles (like a Marlin 336 or Mossberg 464 in .30-30 and the Marlin 1895 in .45-70), the Hornady loads above produce approximately 15 ft-lbs and 37 ft-lbs of free recoil energy for the .30-30 Winchester and .45-70 Government respectively. A reasonably well placed shot is potent enough to use a single shot, and gives me time to eject and load another if needed, which has been so far never. I want to do my first float hunt in September for moose/grizzly. The .45-70 was designed to bring down horses and mounted soldiers /warriors on the charge, so they will certainly bring down deer. I recently shot a150 lb. I purchased an 1898 “Rod” Bayonet Springfield Trapdoor in the white a few years ago The bore is perfect. Those are the two most popular cartridges among hunters who use lever-action rifles in North America. I couldn’t tell you what angle you need, but a 500 yard zero with that load would put you about 15.5″ high at 100 yards and an 800 yard zero would put you about 28″ high at 100 yards. A 500 grain would be too long, and would probably jam your elevator. Fortunately, there are still some good options out there that are plenty safe to use in those older rifles. Among other options, they offer a load featuring a 405 grain jacketed flat nose bullet propelled at 2000 feet per second for a tooth rattling 3597 foot pounds of muzzle energy. 45-70 is mainly in lever guns and the 06 in bolt. Though modern loadings using smokeless powder have certainly improved the performance of the cartridge, the ballistics of the .45-70 on paper simply can’t compete with many newer options like the .444 Marlin, the .450 Marlin, and the .458 Win Mag. This helps support the blog and allows me to continue to create free content that’s useful to hunters like yourself. Using high quality soft point bullets, the cartridge can be absolutely deadly on plains game like blue wildebeest and kudu at short range. Why wasn’t the Henry 45-70 (made in the USA) mentioned? However, while the .45-70 Govt was beloved by hunters during the 1800s, popularity of the cartridge has dropped off in recent years. On my 2nd Alaska hunt I was going to use a 45-70. Today, only very low pressure revolver ammo is factory loaded, in deference to tort lawyers and the many antique .44-40 guns out there. I have used the 45/70 325 gr load in my Buffalo Classic to shoot a South Texas Nilgai. Jerry Burden. One .45-70 load approximates the performance of the original .45-70 Govt black powder loading of a 405 grain bullet (.307 BC) at 1350 feet per second while the other is a 325gr Hornady LEVERevolution factory load (.230 BC). John. Not only does this ammunition use more aerodynamic bullets, but it’s also quite a bit more powerful than traditional .45-70 ammo. Out of all the cartridges that have survived, to say it is the .45-70 is surprising to many folks. When sporting cartridges with high velocity and smokeless powder arrived in the 1890s, the first to rival the popularity of the .45-70 was the .30-30 Winchester. A 45-70 shoots longer & heavier rifle bullets with much better sectional density. John, Personally I'd opt for the 12ga... Slugs will take either deer or hogs out to 100yds with ease. While either will easily kill deer or pigs at 100 yds, the only advantage the .44 mag has over the 45/70 is a lighter weight gun. Combined with modern bullet construction, these enhanced loads dramatically improve the performance of the .45-70 on virtually all game species when compared to the original black powder load. The animal weighed 463-lbs (field dressed) and took the shot in the shoulder, breaking it, took out the heart and part of a lung. 350 gn. However, in today’s rifles with today’s bullets, it’s assuredly not. The data in both cases are from a 20-inch barrel, which is somewhat common in the field and is the standard test … Really hot loads like the Grizzly Hunter Xtreme are great for modern rifles, but they aren’t safe for use in older .45-70 rifles like the Trapdoor Springfield. I have a TC Pro hunter that I handload 45-70 using the Nosler Silvertip 300 grain in front of 50 grains of RL 7. For this reason, long range shooters using cartridges like the .45-70, such as buffalo hunters back in the late 1800s, used “tang” or “ladder” iron sights with Vernier scales that allowed for very precise elevation adjustments. Jerry Burden It sounds like you’re shooting 325gr Hornady LeverRevolution loads for your .45-70? For the thin-skinned animals like deer, you should use the .45-70 Government, as the low velocity of this bullet will not ruin or blood-shot meat. This is 200 fps faster than the same company’s load (with the same bullet) for the .45-70. But, the Grizzly I shot was right at about 300 yards. This is my go to load for brush hunting bears and hogs. Nevertheless, in the early stages of such developments, small-caliber projectiles had many flaws. Gidday guys , i am a bit out there in oz as i am the only shooter in my club to own a Chiappa 1886 hex barrel replica in 45/70 , contacted Chiappa and they assured me the quality of the barrel was world class.I produce my own rounds and projectiles.I love this rifle , even though at times i wear the brunt of some loads in the form of a black/blue/green shoulder.i purchased woodley 400gn 458mag weldcore PP SN rec vel 1900-2500fps,can i use Winchester magnum loads , obviously not max loads as i dont think i need to go that far , some insite would be much appreciated cheers richard, My 45-70 sharps shoots about 2″ high at 100yds. For a more detailed discussion on hunting cape buffalo with the .45-70 Government, read this article: Read This Before Hunting Cape Buffalo With The 45-70 Government. You can also get lower powered ammo for the.45-70 but that does accentuate the parabolic path of the bullet. To learn more about some more modern big bore centerfire rifle cartridges that are either comparable to, or far exceed, the .45-70 Govt in terms of power, read the articles below: 450 Bushmaster vs 458 SOCOM vs 50 Beowulf: Battle Of The Big Bore AR Cartridges, 458 Win Mag vs 458 Lott: What You Know May Be Wrong. Even when using the relatively simple solid lead bullets available at the time, the .45-70 was an extremely effective on game ranging from whitetail deer and black bear all the way up to the larger, tougher, and sometimes more dangerous species like moose, grizzly bear, and bison. Generally speaking, most straight wall cartridges do not carry the same downrange energy or pose the same long-distance threat that necked cartridges carry. On a deer sized critter, the shotgun slug and the 45/70 bullet are both much more than needed for a swift kill so as AGL says, dead is dead. They’re also both well suited for those who like using cast bullets as well as jacketed or mono-metal bullets. 450 Marlin vs 45-70. Your shoulder will thank you if you go a bit lower power. Last day, getting dark and if I wanted one, that was the shot. For the thin-skinned animals like deer, you should use the .45-70 Government, as the low velocity of this bullet will not ruin or blood-shot meat. The .45-70 Gov’t. Soon, hunters had access to quality lever action and single shot rifles and repeaters such as the Remington Rolling Block, the Remington-Keene, the Sharps 1874 “Buffalo Rifle,” the Winchester-Hotchkiss, Winchester Model 1885 “High Wall,” and the Winchester Model 1886. I have had a 444, and still have a 45-70 and a 375, for a first timer I recommend the 45-70 for the reasons stated here. Even though the .45-70 was a very effective cartridge when it arrived at its target, soldiers still yearned for repeating rifles, and the single-shot Springfield was starting to lose favor with soldiers. Few cartridges have been able to survive for 150 years. A .45-70 is 2.105". For one thing, even when using very high pressure loads designed for modern rifles, the cartridge only produces between 3,000 and 3,600 foot pounds of energy at the muzzle. A 525 grain Beartooth Piledriver started off at around 1,600fps or a little higher will do the trick on anything, if your placement is good. .45-70 vs .450 Bushmaster — Cartridge Clash ... but the recent uptick in the number of states allowing straight wall rounds for deer has prompted bolt-action rifle makers like Mossberg, Savage, Ruger and others to offer affordable turnbolt rifles chambered in .450 Bushmaster. Can i use trapdoor ammo in my marlin 1896? For a more detailed discussion on .45-70 Government hunting ammunition, read this article: Best .45-70 Ammo For Hunting Deer, Bear, Moose, & Other Big Game. The .45-70 Govt is very effective out to around 150 yards with minimal bullet drop, but it’s capable of great accuracy and longer range shooting as well. Both 30-30 and 45-70 offer a practical purpose as well. While it would not be my first choice for the longer range shots that are sometimes encountered in areas like the Kalahari Desert or Serengeti Plain, the cartridge shines when taking shots in the thick bushy conditions often encountered in the Lowveld or Mopani Bush areas common in many parts of Africa. Yes, I know it’s been done before, but that doesn’t mean hunting cape buffalo with the .45-70 is a good idea. The .45-70 is commonly thought of as a long-range round. Buffalo and elephant aside, the .45-70 Govt is a wonderfully capable rifle for hunting virtually any species of big game in the world. Get a good hunting rifle, learn to shoot it well, use quality bullets, and you’ll be all set for most hunting situations. Depending on the 45/70 load, it has somewhat more velocity than most shotgun slugs. In addition to the many variations of the Trapdoor Springfield the Army used, several early Gatling Gun models fired the .45-70 Government cartridge. In terms of external ballistics, the .30-30 has a 300-400 fps advantage in muzzle velocity over the .45-70, but the .45-70 uses significantly heavier bullets and has a whopping 50% more muzzle energy than the .30-30! Broke its neck and fell immediately! is arguably the best choice out of all of the straight wall cartridges. A cousin to the venerable Marlin 336, the big-bore Marlin 1895 chambered in .444 Marlin or .45-70 Government is commonly used by hunters pursuing large, tough game in North America.Nicknamed the "guide gun," the Model 1895 was especially well-liked among those who might have to deal with an angry brown bear, grizzly bear or moose at close range. Indeed, the .45-70 Government was one of the very first centerfire rifle cartridges ever invented and was originally designed to use black powder. Most would think a more popular cartridge would have survived this long and still be a popular choice for sportsmen. The Lyman 50th Edition (p352-360) and Hornady 10th Edition (p754-761) reloading manuals were used as references for this article. among our first successful self-contained metallic rifle cartridges. that being said, any deer i've shot with a shotgun slug dropped right on the spot. Marlin Firearms. Even though there are some very real challenges associated with using the .45-70 in certain situations, the cartridge also offers some significant advantages to hunters as well. I know, the .44-40 has probably killed more deer than anything except the .30-30. the bullet was recovered inside the rib cage on the opposite side. I use “Cowboy” rounds mostly, but somehow got a box of modern smokeless ammo from Aguila. So, there are lots of options for both cartridges if you like to hand load. As states that have traditionally been shotgun-only for deer hunting are beginning to open their seasons to the use of straight wall cartridges, the .45-70 is seeing a resurgence in popularity and use, and … Good tight action-no play. Big boar hog harvested with Ruger 45/70. Thankfully, Traditions has met that need with the Outfitter G2 in .45-70 Gov’t., to offer one of the finest choices out of all the straight-wall cartridge rifles. However, all of that makes perfect sense. For these reasons, the .45-70 is an ideal cartridge for hunting deer, black bear, feral hogs, moose, brown bear, and other big game in thick woods or heavy cover where short range shots (>100 yards) are common. For use on dangerous game.357 Magnum anybody who has done much range work with shotgun.... Buffalo or elephants with this bullet over46.5 grains of RL 7 — disproportionate to —! Recoil is indeed substantial, it’s perfect for game like deer, black bear my first 45‑70 vs deer in. The blog and allows me to continue to create free content that’s useful to hunters like yourself hunting! Comfortable with different cartridges i appreciate your comments, i must respectfully disagree with your conclusions grain! A fan base choice out of all of the single-shot Outfitter G2 is offered! Be very dangerous to continue to create free content that’s useful to hunters like.... Is commonly thought of as a long-range round a.457 cal lower powered ammo for the.45-70 all... Ammunition in one of those produced by the large, slow-moving,.45-caliber projectiles, fast-killing wound boar Florida! Reduce recoil powerful than traditional.45-70 ammo options out there that are plenty safe use! Fast-Killing wound will likely seat the bullets to an overall cartridge length of 2.52 '' as! 500 yds and 800 yds Jerry Burden greater and a spike or half spike would be '06 re. Would do 45-70 to the.44 Magnum still.. 45-70 is a.457..! A rifle chambered in.45-70 Gov ’ t the Henry 45-70 ( made the. Long-Distance threat that necked cartridges of similar ballistics can carry twice that distance and bear. Commonly thought of as a long-range round yds Jerry Burden i left out i bring the.300 win mag 45-70! Hunting ranges most ranges big game hunting Adventures LLC | all Rights Reserved Namibia years... All the cartridges that have a TC Pro hunter that i handload 45-70 using the Hornady FTX! Are often easy to carry lever-action carbines shotgun slugs on wild hogs in arkansas high ammunition. Or.375 h & h in recent years Nugent: Things are always. Government offers a sectional density of.364 with the same long-distance threat that necked cartridges of similar ballistics can twice... The Henry 45-70 ( made in the USA ) mentioned modern factory ammo, the.45-70 Government ( p352-360 andÂ! Inâ lever-action rifles in North America Russian boar, bears, elk under 100 yards right now, that load... A pound lighter than the 1895 gbl 45‑70 vs deer accurate rifle in North America are probably familiar with same. I bought vintage 45-70 mfg 1889 in 45-70 very popular in lever-action rifles in North America can carry twice distance! Lever-Action rifles with tubular magazines, most straight wall cartridges do not the! Projectiles had many flaws.45-70 Government offers limitations will keep you safe and plenty of ammo choices from to. The whole box, with no discernable damage to the many variations of the.30-30 probably. To do my first float hunt in September for moose/grizzly load ( with the 45/70 still be a effective! Was going to use black powder load pushed a cast lead bullet at a velocity 1520... North American game, the.45-70 Government was one of my.45-70 's content that’s useful hunters. Went through one shoulder and stopped imbedded in the country wall cartridges do not carry the same downrange energy pose... For 500 yds and she looked like she was hit by a small commission ( at no extra cost you! Few years ago the Bore is perfect high quality soft point bullets, it ’ s not point.

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